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Post by mrp on Feb 15, 2017 10:12:14 GMT
Australia should have been a confederation, the Commonwealth barred from income tax, and only responsible for defence, uniform commerce laws and foreign affairs and a Federal superior court of record, with no permament capital, Fiji and NZ might have joined as well.
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Post by DADDY O on Feb 18, 2017 12:17:59 GMT
Australia should have been a confederation, the Commonwealth barred from income tax, and only responsible for defence, uniform commerce laws and foreign affairs and a Federal superior court of record, with no permament capital, Fiji and NZ might have joined as well. Quite Libertarian of you. The only problem is ALL THE OTHER STUFF that one needs in order to develop a society than can pay taxes for their defense, uniform commercial laws, foreign affairs.....etc. You know, little things that spring up from time to time, like....Collection, Treatment and Distribution of Potable Water; Collection and Treatment of Wastewater; Roads; Bridges; Highways; Protection of the Environment; Law Enforcement..........and this list can go on and on and on. Why is it Libertarians always forget the little issues? |
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Post by mrp on Feb 21, 2017 12:48:13 GMT
Let's forget you are completely ignorant of privatisation, pure public goods, the real world etc.
Why should the Commonwealth deal with garbage collection? The States/colonies already had local government before Federation.
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Post by DADDY O on Feb 21, 2017 18:32:14 GMT
Let's forget you are completely ignorant of privatisation, pure public goods, the real world etc. Why should the Commonwealth deal with garbage collection? The States/colonies already had local government before Federation. Why would you think I am completely ignorant of Privatization? I have worked for many private companies in designing and building Water system, Sanitary Sewer Systems, Gas systems (both natural and propane). My clients have been Exxon, Texaco, Enterprise, OneOk.......etc., etc., etc. I even developed a propane gas system in Austin in an area where natural gas could not economically be constructed, with my own resources and turned around and sold it for a good profit. How many private system have you developed and sold? Don't answer that. That was asked at the same level of knowledge that you asked yours.......so, let's get off of who's is bigger, shall we? The point I was trying to make is, it takes more than defense, superior courts, commerce laws and foreign affairs to run a country. How about Highways? Why should my constituents pay for Highways from one state to another, when the other state hasn't the resources to pay their half of it? Same with bridges. And how about environmental controls? In the USA, who should regulate the water problems in Flint, Michigan? Apparently, the city and state both failed at it. And.............you'll like this one.......who regulates the tolls/taxes of these "Private Ventures" to make sure they are economical and fair? Please don't give me a debate on the law of supply and demand. Supply and Demand is what caused over 100,000 residents of Flint, Michigan to be exposed to high levels of lead in the drinking water. A federal state of emergency was declared in January, 2016 and Flint residents were instructed to use only bottled or filtered water for drinking and bathing. So what would be your solution to the "privatization" of public water systems.....or sewer systems......or air pollution from mining activities.....or.........well, I hope you get my drift? |
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Post by sherri on Feb 21, 2017 21:43:42 GMT
Privatization has its place. But there have to be checks and balances and private enterprise always bears watching, because with private enterprise, the bottom line is profit, not what is necessarily good for people or even safe. And not necessarily what is good for the country either.
A working society needs some regulations and some government. Daddyo is right. There is no getting away from it.
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Post by mrp on Feb 21, 2017 23:42:34 GMT
"We need some laws" does not equate to "government must run auto plants" or "government must build sewers".
Nor does it equate to "Australia should have a strong centralised government".
Let me elaborate what I said before. The colonies did everything the States and Commonwealth do now. They had local government for rates, local roads, rubbish, sewers and dog catching. The colonies ran rail and police/gaols like now. They also had their own armies which were part of the British Imperial forces. Australians fought in the Boer War, Crimea and Sudan in their colonial regiments...so you'd have the Victorian "army" and the Tasmanian "army" forming units of the British forces.
Our Federal government is hugely wasteful. There have been court cases where they have been undemocratically given more power than they ever were intended to have. Google the Tasmanian Dams Case. You know what is bizarre about that? The Federal government actually used F-111s and their excellent reconnaissance tech. to spy upon their legal enemies.
Do you think that is a case of being over-governed?
...and I apologise for being rude. I was pressed for time before.
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Post by mrp on Feb 21, 2017 23:53:12 GMT
"Why would you think I am completely ignorant of Privatization? I have worked for many private companies in designing and building Water system, Sanitary Sewer Systems, Gas systems (both natural and propane). My clients have been Exxon, Texaco, Enterprise, OneOk.......etc., etc., etc. I even developed a propane gas system in Austin in an area where natural gas could not economically be constructed, with my own resources and turned around and sold it for a good profit. How many private system have you developed and sold? Don't answer that. That was asked at the same level of knowledge that you asked yours.......so, let's get off of who's is bigger, shall we?"
The point is...you SHOULD know better. I don't see a government energy system that works that well, or for profit.
"The point I was trying to make is, it takes more than defense, superior courts, commerce laws and foreign affairs to run a country."
Not really. Especially not for a Federal or confederal government.
Why do they need police? Why do they need to make land use laws? Why do they need to govern contract when it is mostly common law? Why can't the states agree by internal treaty like that in Switzerland.
Why are regulations good? They just repeat torts.
"How about Highways? Why should my constituents pay for Highways from one state to another, when the other state hasn't the resources to pay their half of it? Same with bridges."
If there was no government involvement, you wouldn't have that State-State federal issue of horizontal fiscal imbalances.
"And how about environmental controls? In the USA, who should regulate the water problems in Flint, Michigan? Apparently, the city and state both failed at it."
So the Federal government ought to do it? Why are they any better? The government failed twice. The US government...has also nuked a lot of places without permission.
"And.............you'll like this one.......who regulates the tolls/taxes of these "Private Ventures" to make sure they are economical and fair? Please don't give me a debate on the law of supply and demand. "
So you're refusing to accept the answer. This is why it is better. You have no choice with government, and in two party politics, one more choice than in communism.
Private tolls in Australia make money because it is cheaper for people to spend financial capital and save time. They're not expensive anyway comapred to public transport which is (I'm talking Sydney here which refuses to privatise) so bad that the NSW Rail Authority did not know how many staff it actually had. A cleaner was pulling 70+ hour weeks by...sleeping in a latrine! The cost of a bus ticket/train ticket is more expensive than a car unless you travel long distance and the time cost is huge. The only reason why parking is so expensive is because the greedy state/local/federal governments tax land development at over 45% all up.
Can you imagine starting a capital project with a tax rate around 80-85%? You do project management for a lliving (as Ricky Roma would say). I can't image many projects being viable at that rate.
"Supply and Demand is what caused over 100,000 residents of Flint, Michigan to be exposed to high levels of lead in the drinking water. A federal state of emergency was declared in January, 2016 and Flint residents were instructed to use only bottled or filtered water for drinking and bathing. "
Why would the Feds have stopped it? The private sector gave them a safe, cheap alternative.
"So what would be your solution to the "privatization" of public water systems.....or sewer systems......or air pollution from mining activities.....or.........well, I hope you get my drift?"
Do it because the net result is better from an unbiased view behind the "veil of ignorance'. You cannot judge policy assuming you know or prefer where you'd be born.
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Post by DADDY O on Feb 22, 2017 19:21:59 GMT
I tell you what MRP.......I do not agree with all of your logic here.............but I do love to read it.
Very well thought out and very well said.
All of us are very glad you are here.
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Post by sherri on Feb 22, 2017 20:17:25 GMT
Let me elaborate what I said before. The colonies did everything the States and Commonwealth do now. They had local government for rates, local roads, rubbish, sewers and dog catching. The colonies ran rail and police/gaols like now. ...and I apologise for being rude. I was pressed for time before. The rail was a dog's breakfast and you know it, with each colony opting for a different gauge. There are times when a federal overview would be better. Defence is another one that's better handled nationally.
Local govt ie councils, on the other hand, I would question how well they are run. To me, they get caught up in stuff that really isn't their business and waste rate money. A lot of corruption in local councils too. I think they come under a little less scrutiny so get away with it more than some federal politicians would. Small & local doesn't always mean good, in my experience.
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Post by mrp on Feb 23, 2017 6:51:43 GMT
Rail and defence. I guess "uniform commerce laws" might mean rail standards.
The Parliament could have sat in each State capital on a rotational basis.
Look at the NBN now! Is this any worse than the rail system of old?!
"Local govt ie councils, on the other hand, I would question how well they are run. To me, they get caught up in stuff that really isn't their business and waste rate money."
You'd think so until you read the local government act. They are meant to do all the non-core crap they do.
I have dealt with Victorian local government as a contractor and tenderer, and they are full on moonbeams.
On the other hand, Canberra was a mistake. Should have let it been the NZ embassy, that's it.
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Post by mrp on Feb 23, 2017 7:01:11 GMT
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