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Post by DADDY O on Oct 26, 2017 21:09:14 GMT
Today is the day that the National Archives are supposed to release the classified files pertaining to the assassination of JFK. As you might imagine, there is a lot of theater going on right now. But, apparently the files will not be released today. The CIA and FBI argued strenuously today that these files should not be released until they have been redacted. Now, this is 50 years since the assassination. What kind of secrets can be in those files? So, don't hold your breath that any meaningful files will be released anytime soon........unless, Trump can make a link to Hillary as being one of the shooters......after all, he tried it with Ted Cruse' father, but it didn't go to far.
Personally, I don't think Oswald had enough brain power to do this on his own. Thus, I have two theories about what happened in Dallas.
Theory #1 - Dallas is in Texas, home of Vice President LBJ. There is no doubt that JFK used LBJ to get enough votes to win the election. As soon as the inauguration was over, JFK buried LBJ in a back closet in the White House and effectively took away any of his powers as VP. LBJ was pissed, to say the least. LBJ put into motion the hit on JFK and then found a mafia guy (Jack Ruby) who was dying of cancer and had about one year left to live, to kill Oswald. LBJ becomes President, and a new World Order (so to speak) emerged.
Theory #2 - The Mafia did it. Remember that JFK's brother RFK was the attorney general, and he launched a very big and sensational investigation into the Mafia. I remember watching the proceedings on TV. Every question that any Mafiosi was asked was always answered "I refuse to answer on the grounds that it may tend to incriminate me". So, and in order to get even, the Mafia had JFK assassinated followed by one of the members of their own tribe to kill Oswald. LBJ goes to the top and RFK goes to the bottom.......well, for a few years, and then he is also hit in LA.
Got any other theories?
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Post by sherri on Oct 26, 2017 22:33:38 GMT
No idea really. But I don't expect any truth to come out in any files either, even if they were released today.
I think Oswald did the shooting. I know there have been theories to the contrary but I think he did it, & from the location they found.
His motivation behind it? Maybe the Mafia did put him up to it. For all I know, maybe people acting for the Soviets did it. I don't believe LBJ would have, not in a blue moon.
I suspect if the FBI found evidence of any of those things in the months following the assassination, those findings would not have been made public. They would not want it made public now either as it makes the gov't look a bit weak for not responding. There was a lot of emotion around at that time, I recall how shocked my parents were. Whatever, it wasn't worth starting any war over or anything.
I don't believe every last part of any investigation should belong to the public either. Not if it would go completely against the country's interest. 50 years isn't a long time.
I truly doubt the US gov't or anyone in it had anything to do with it. But even if they had have, it would not be good to release that information as I think your enemies would use it to throw up against you.
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Post by DADDY O on Oct 27, 2017 10:32:33 GMT
I also believe that Oswald was the only shooter. However, he wasn't the sharpest knife in the drawer, so he needed help to pull it off. First of all, the Texas School Book Depoisitory, where Oswald worked, was not only a good place to commit the crime, but was the BEST place to do so. It sits on a corner where the motorcade had to take a hard left turn, which gave Oswald the perfect location for a shot...in two different directions. It also had a back door away from the street which gave him the avenue to escape from.
Second.....Oswald went to a movie theater to hide in for a few hours. While he was there, a police officer named J.D. Tippit somehow knew not only was Oswald was inside, but what he looked like.....very convenient.....no? When Tippit (by himself) approached him to make an arrest, Oswald shot & killed him.
And third....Oswald was shot and killed while in custody and inside the Dallas Police Building by a well known (to the Dallas Police) Mafia Lieutenant who had cancer with one year to live.
I have a hard time believing that all of these events are simply coincidences. And now, we throw yet another wrench into the fray by delaying the most revealing documents for another 6 months. Why is this? CNN is speculating that Oswald was actually an agent for the CIA, whom was the entity that asked for the delay.
Don't ever forget that LBJ was the most powerful, devious and cruel individual to serve as the Senate Majority leader in Congress. He wielded more power than anyone else before or after him. A good read on him is Robert Cairo's book "The Path to Power". You won't believe what he was capable of.
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Post by sherri on Oct 27, 2017 20:13:21 GMT
I wouldn't be at all surprised if Oswald was influenced or put up to it, but the man was a soviet defector, he married a Russian woman and moved in Soviet social/political circles in USA in the year or so immediately before the assassination.
So I think his motivation was likely to be political opposition to Kennedy & his ways.
Now as to Ruby, I agree with you that it was no coincidence or accidental that he managed to get into the police building & shoot Oswald. The reason could be more basic than people realise though.
I believe that there was a lot of emotion after Kennedy's shooting, a lot of grief. A lot of anger.
And there they had the man himself who had done the shooting, a soviet defector, a traitor.
So what was ahead? A long legal trial & maybe the man would be imprisoned for life. or maybe embarrassing stuff might come out-maybe Oswald would claim he didn't act alone, the soviets were behind it. Where would that leave USA? What would their response be?
All in all, the CIA may have been appalled and figured the man was probably better off dead immediately and so hired a mafia man for the job.
There's nothing to say some members of the mafia are not also patriotic & may have been very happy to kill Oswald.
I'm not saying they necessarily loved Robert Kennedy but the logical thing would be to kill Robert, not JFK, JFK was too high profile, too much flack.
I don't think the police on the ground had any idea Ruby was there till he was, but some higher ups definitely let him in to do the deed.
But it could have been patriotism & opportunism.
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Post by DADDY O on Nov 4, 2017 16:25:58 GMT
I liked your post Sherri.......but, let's look at all the facts: - Oswald went to work for the Texas School Book Depository (where he shot JFK) one month before the assassination. It was the "Perfect" location for a sniper shot, as it was located directly on a corner where the motorcade turned left. It gave Oswald two "windows of opportunity" to shoot from. He chose the second window, as he was 30 yards away from his target.
- Oswald was a loser. All of his life, he couldn't keep a job. He went to the Russian embassy in Mexico City to try and be a "spy" for the Russians, and he was such a loser, the Russians rejected him. He then went to the Cuban Embassy in Mexico City to try the same shit. Even the Cubans rejected him. All of this was tracked by the CIA.
- For Oswald to (a) get a job was a phenomenal event. Couple that with (b) it was only 30 yards away from the President's route. Couple that with (c) No one knows the Presidential routes until a day or so before he arrives, and you have to wonder..............How convenient was all of this, if your goal was to shoot the President?
- After Oswald fired his fatal shots, he immediately fled the building, leaving his weapon behind, with all fo the incriminating evidence on it, like ballistics, fingerprints, serial number of the weapon, etc. Was he this stupid, or was he instructed to do so?
- Once Oswald left the building, he fled to a movie theater, where it is dark inside and a great place to hide for a few hours. While he was there (in a dark movie theater), a Dallas City Police officer named J.D. Tippit, went into the theater, approached Oswald, and we presume wanted to make an arrest, but Oswald shot him dead (with a pistol) in the Movie Theater. Imagine that?
- Oswald was hen "captured" outside of the movie theater by more Dallas City policemen. Very convenient.
- So now we have Oswald in custody, who may just spill his beans, so how might this be handled? Well, let's hire a Mafiosa man who will be dead from cancer within a year, and is a known person (nicely known) of the Dallas Police Department to enter the Police Department and get close enough to him to shoot him at point blank range in the heart. He was Dead on Arrival at the same exact hospital that JFK died in..................Parkland Memorial Hospital.
- So now, JFK is dead, Oswald is dead, and Jack Ruby....who will be dead within a year, are all of the remaining players in the "game"
- Fast Forward........Trump wants to release ALL of the JFK files that have been sealed for so many years.........and, the CIA argues to the President that National Security would be compromised if some files were released. Furthermore, the CIA wants to redact (means block out) portions of those files before releasing them. Why, I ask? After 54 years?
- Here is my answer......Oswald was not a member of the CIA, but he was hired by the CIA as a contractor to kill the President. And then the CIA wanted to cover this up by killing Oswald with (1) a Dallas policeman, and then when that failed, with a Mafiosa Boss that would keep his mouth shut, and would be dead within a year. Perhaps his "Family" would be paid a "stippence" for life?
- So, who had the "Power" to do all of this.....to be able to couple the CIA and the Dallas Police Department? None other than the most cruel Senator this nation has ever experienced......Lyndon Banes Johnson.....who profited most from this event.
- Now then, let's couple that with recent events......the CIA does NOT want the JFK files released until they have had a chance to redact those files.......imagine that?
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Post by sherri on Nov 4, 2017 21:56:55 GMT
The bottom line is I don't know & I don't think we'll ever completely know.
I would agree Oswald wasn't a great success story in life but he was very loyal to the concept of communism. Whether the Soviets rejected him or not isn't totally the point. The point is he was loyal to them-he moved in Russian circles and attended small Russian meetings right up till the time of the assassination.
He also lived in relative poverty.
Now, if he was such a loser, you have to ask... why would the CIA have a lot of confidence that this was the perfect man for the job?
I think we can be pretty sure of a couple of things.
1. If the CIA did put him up to it, he would not have had a clue they were CIA. A known Russian sympathiser would not work for the American Gov't or CIA, he would not trust them. Nor could the CIA trust a man like that not to turn to the media before the event.
2. You asked-Why would any shooter leave all the evidence behind him, even if directed to? Wouldn't he realise that it may be incriminating? It's not normally what a person would do if they expected to get away with it. But.. we're talking 1963 & forensics weren't what they are now. They had fingerprints & that was about it. Let's think of why he may have left the room.
-perhaps he thought he had been sighted or his location had been sighted and he didn't feel he had time to pack up
-perhaps he thought a quick wipe down of the gun & his fingerprints would be gone, so it would not matter if he left the stuff behind.
-perhaps he felt it wasn't safe to leave the building carrying a bag that held a long rifle as it might mark him as a suspect to be stopped & he didn't want to be found with the evidence.
-perhaps he thought he could escape the area then return later to clean up & no one might have realised where the shots came from or checked all the buildings. If he thought that, it was wishful thinking.
-perhaps he had been told someone else would clean up after him. But if he believed that, he should have asked who & when as anyone coming after him would have even less time than he did.
My bet would be he wiped the gun down & thought even if the police found it later, they would not be able to prove he did the shooting. Hence why he went to a movie theatre as alibi maybe.
I think it is possible he was a patsy but I think it is equally possible he was a Soviet patsy as they had nothing to lose by letting him have a try. As long as he died soon afterwards so he couldn't talk.
I also think the CIA would suspect that immediately but proving he had actual soviet support behind him would be a lot harder. How to prove he wasn't just a lone wolf or small wolf?
The US government would be appalled, they would not necessarily want to start a world war over this. Easier to accept him as a lone wolf, a nasty communist man.
But if they actually knew that he had official soviet backing or support & they had intentionally misled the public to play it down, that could be in the records & would the CIA want that info to come out now? I wouldn't think so.
No matter if that is the case or if LBJ ordered it (I still don't think the man did that), if there is paperwork either way, then I don't think it is in US interest to have it released.
Not for another 100 years. 50 years is far too soon to be releasing any sensitive info about anything.
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Post by sherri on Nov 4, 2017 22:27:09 GMT
One thing it is interesting to wonder-would Trump have a clue what is in any of those files?
I would guess 100% not.
Is it in his interests to have the files released? Quite possibly.
Think of it this way. The CIA probably knows a lot more about the killing than they ever made public. The general public has suspected that for years, as you know.
What if the files showed they knew it was a direct Soviet attack on the presidency & the CIA & LBJ hid it to avoid confrontation, how would it make the CIA look?
What if files showed it was a CIA operation & they had hired Oswald? How would it make the CIA itself look?
What if it showed a Democrat president in league with the mafia to bring down a rival in this way? How would that make the Democrat party look?
What if it showed Oswald hadn't even done it but had deliberately been set up by CIA, after one of their own people did the shooting?
Whichever way you swing it, I think CIA would be sneered at. If the CIA then try to turn on Trump, he would have the perfect answer-These guys are rogues with no credibility, they set up deliberate lies/false documentation to bring down their rivals, don't believe them.
Trump's not stupid. He may not be the world's most ethical man but he's not stupid. I don't think he loves the CIA at the moment. This is a win-win for him as he would have known there would be opposition to releasing everything & even if it is not released, it doesn't make the CIA look good, does it.
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Post by granty on Nov 5, 2017 21:30:02 GMT
"I shouted out who killed the Kennedys, when after all it was you and me"
Sympathy for the devil. My favourite Rolling Stones song.
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Post by sherri on Nov 5, 2017 23:38:43 GMT
Not sure if I have heard it. Can't say I agree with the lyrics but I'm guessing it has a good beat.
Or we could have whatever that song is- I shot the sherrif/I didn't kill the deputy.
We can get the Dead Kennedys band to sing it.
I don't suppose we'll ever know exactly what happened with the killing. Even if we were told the truth, we wouldn't know whether to trust it or not.
I just hope that daddy's suspicions are not correct & that LBJ was not behind it, that would be a very sad thing.
One of our PMs died in office (disappeared in the ocean) and LBJ came to the memorial service. PM Holt had a slogan 'All the way with LBJ".
People would have been horrified if they thought LBJ had anything to do with it.
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